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Post by Hazza on Jun 9, 2013 20:37:22 GMT -5
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance?guni=NetworkWe've all heard about it, and I can only assume that we've all seen the video of his interview. I think the link above works. I'm glad "he" did it. I put he in quotations because I think that he didn't go through all this on his own. There is much more to this story. He is right about one thing though, that CIA office in HK is VERY busy right now. Choosing China is a very strange place to retreat to. Very strange. The notion that HK is more liberal might be true to an extent, but is laughable when you look at the bigger picture. They can protest in the streets.... who fucking cares, it's still China. There is much much more to this story than what we are seeing right now. And he is extremely valuable to any intelligence agency in the world, we let him see everything. I'm glad that he did what he did, but something here isn't right. I can't wait to see how this unfolds. It was bi partisan and everyone was in the loop to a certain degree (talking about congress). Also glad to see that After Earth BOMBED. What's up NSA? Glad to see that you joined the party.
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Post by henchman on Jun 9, 2013 21:23:36 GMT -5
This isn't whistle blowing. This is straight up treason.
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Post by Hazza on Jun 9, 2013 21:47:02 GMT -5
You know what? I agree. This man had a level of top secret clearance that most dream about. He was trusted. He was also a contractor and the intelligence community rely on these people.
He might have thought about this on his own, but he had help. That's why he's in China.
He might be committing treason, but I think that it's for the better good. No matter what he says or does this will not stop. At least the global public will get an insight into what is going on here and wherever they live.
This is a good thing. The machine won't stop, but at least we got a small preview of what is to come.
Actually, I don't agree with you Hench. He didn't disclose any top secret or national secrets that weren't known to other governments doing the same thing. European countries should be shitting themselves because they are doing the same thing.
Treason. nope.
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Post by henchman on Jun 9, 2013 22:05:15 GMT -5
Yes. Treason. He was working for an agency that relies on personel being able to keep their mouths shut. It's not up to him or anyone else working there to decide what they can and can't divulge, judt becaus they don't agree.
It's a whole other thing if illegal things are being done. This is not illegal.
He's not a hero, or a whistleblower. He's a traitor. Pure and simple. I hope he likes living in Hong Kong and China. As he ony won't be able to ever leave without getting arrested.
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Post by nycbiscuit on Jun 9, 2013 23:29:19 GMT -5
"This is not illegal" How do you know? There are plenty of members of Congress among others who think that the wholesale collection of data, mined or not, is illegal.
I haven't made up my mind if he's a hero or a traitor. There's still much to be discovered.
He wants to end up in Iceland, and there's an organization there that has come forward to help facilitate that. Why wouldn't he be able to leave without getting arrested? He hasn't committed any international crimes, and as long as wherever he's going is willing to take him...
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Post by henchman on Jun 9, 2013 23:43:23 GMT -5
I guess those members of congress must me suffering from memory loss then. As this has been on the books since Bush was in office.
I'm sure he's violated whatever employment contract he signed with the NSA. And I seriously hope they throw the book at him. Just like that other idiot who's on trial now. This has got to stop. People deciding to just leak whatever the hell they want. Who in their right mind would go work at the NSA if they have issues about shit like this? Fuck him and his self righteous bullshit. heworked at the NSA and didnt have a problem cashing the paychecks. Ad now he's suddenly grown a conscience?
Bullshit.
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Post by henchman on Jun 9, 2013 23:45:36 GMT -5
Oh, and I hope he has fun in the country with the number one suicide rate, Iceland.
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Post by Merc on Jun 10, 2013 0:34:12 GMT -5
So I assumed we all assumed that any idea of privacy on the Internet was an illusion. Way back in 1995 a Wired magazine (print) article set me damned straight on that.
No, this person is not a "traitor" for showing how massive Internet companies are using our data. I had already sort of assumed that was the case. Describing the scale of its operations is quite a breathtaking thing, though. The massive scale of it.
This is only "traitorous" if we "taxpayers and consumers" that were formerly known as American "citizens" in a democratic society ever pledged allegiance to Google and Facebook etc. This is a powerful instance of powerful overreach, and how we react and eal with this will determine what the USA will be in the 21st century. The incursions on the privacy, rights, livelihoods of ordinary Americans is an assault that's been going on for quite some time. The middle class is pretty much half-wrecked at this point.
Knowing is better than not knowing.
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Post by henchman on Jun 10, 2013 0:51:27 GMT -5
I'm sorry. But he signed up to work for the NSA. And then starts opening his big flappy mouth.
Again. I hope he goes to jail.
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Post by jammybastard on Jun 10, 2013 7:15:12 GMT -5
He's a hero. I'm glad he finally got in touch with his conscious, and I hope many others do as well.
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Post by DannyA on Jun 10, 2013 8:57:16 GMT -5
The constitution is the highest law of the land and this is clearly breaking it. There's no argument about that; it's simple fact. Just because congress shit themselves in 2001 and passed the patriot act (ha) doesn't make it legal. It's like if a state passed a law saying "go ahead and kill people, it's OK." Oh wait, Florida did that.
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Post by henchman on Jun 10, 2013 10:00:17 GMT -5
Um, yes. If a law is passed, it makes it legal. The guy defected to China. He's a traitor, not a hero.
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Post by jammybastard on Jun 10, 2013 10:24:02 GMT -5
Um, yes. If a law is passed, it makes it legal. The guy defected to China. He's a traitor, not a hero. defect1. To disown allegiance to one's country and take up residence in another 2. To abandon a position or association, often to join an opposing group He hasn't defected. His physical location is half the equation, and secondary at that. Yes, he is hiding out in Hong Kong. So what? Here's the crux of the biscuit: He has not disowned his allegiance *to* his country. If anything he has upheld his allegiance to his country. He has disowned his allegiance to his employer, the NSA, CIA, FBI... Which leads us to: treason1: the betrayal of a trust 2: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family He betrayed the trust of his employer, but not this country or his people. He definitely did not try to overthrow the gov't. He released information that proves what we've suspected all along. The government, despite all of it's assurances, can and does spy on it's own citizens. That's not a secret. BTW - You seem to think that just because one takes a paycheck they should be loyal and not develop a conscious. Really? So if what he was doing was illegal he should just go along with it? You really believe that's the correct moral choice?
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Post by nycbiscuit on Jun 10, 2013 10:38:05 GMT -5
The Patriot Act does not cover the scope of data collection that Snowden has claimed. The Patriot Act doesn't cover what has been revealed recently in regard to Verizon. This is why people like Sensenbrenner, who helped write the Patriot Act, are questioning these activities, or why people like Rand Paul intend to bring it before the Supreme Court. What Snowden has done is clearly illegal and in violation of his employment contract and classified clearance. It doesn't mean necessarily that he was acting unethically or immorally. That's what makes him both a hero and a traitor. Tough call.
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Post by DannyA on Jun 10, 2013 11:45:44 GMT -5
Um, yes. If a law is passed, it makes it legal. that's simply not true.
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